we get the point [ well most of us do] but its a long way round the house old son ......

Posted by denc on 26/September/2001 at 23:42:

In Reply to: English Football Hooliganism... posted by safehaven on 26/September/2001 at 23:34:

bad dogs bite but it dont mean all dogs are bad

geddit

Denc

:
: Over 90% of football hooliganism is caused by English supporters of football. (I have a list of over 60 football clubs in England alone where supporters of these teams have gone on the rampage destroying property and devastating lives). Anyone who supports football teams where there is hooliganism should immediately be identified, and questioned about other criminal activity. Outside a football stadium 800 'English people' could be seen chanting abusive language, with frequent fights breaking out between various factions. Often these 'English people' are armed with knives. In two recent armed robberies police found crutial evidence in the car, of Millwall Football Club Scarves. It is therefore clear that these fanatical British groups are supported by the proceeds of organised crime.

: The majority of British people do support a football club, so the British are supporters of pure hatred and violence. If you support the British, you support violence. Are you for or against violence ?

: Is this a fair view ? No obviously not.

: As a British person I would be incensed to think that someone could not understand the difference between a 'real' football supporter and those football supporters who support a team just for the violence. I would also be incensed that such a global term as British was being used to represent this minority of football supporters.

: You'd also point out that even though many football clubs have hooliganism, that the majority of people who support football clubs are peaceful people who want nothing to do with this violence. Plus just because the majority of hooligans are English doesn't mean that all English people should be treated as hooligans.

: Because we are completely familiar with what it means to be a football supporter, means that we can instantly see through the obvious falicy of the above representation and arguements. If we read this in a newspaper we'd laugh. Just in the same way we laugh at the Financial Analysts on CNN and their obvious biased points of view, and attempt to manipulate the market, or their favourite stocks.

: Now imagine that wherever you went you always had to wear your football scarf. Because of this scarf you would always be identified as 'one of those hooligans'. Then 20 people from your football club carryout an attrocity killing many, many people. Now wherever you go you are spat at. People point at you. Your kids are bullied at school. You walk in a bar and the place goes quiet; someone picks a fight. Every newspaper you read talks about those 'English' fanatics. Every TV program seems to talk about British people yet again causing violence. Then you see a chat show where they talk about the British and what can be done to eradicate this British problem. You could see how this would alienate 'British' people from those making these types of statements. How long before you might expect these peaceful British people to react with violence to the violence that they are receiving ? But of course this is what you'd expect from the violent British! (See how our attitudes and the generic use of tags will cause this circle to be complete ?)

: Yet this is what is happening throughout the country to ordinary honest muslim families because people are ignorant of what it means to be a muslim. Anybody who is truly religious inherently understands that the religious message is about peace, love and understanding. Religion is not about taking the little bits that supports your point of view, it's about the whole. The whole does not support the taking of another life. Period.

: People like Osama Bin Laden distort Islam for their own purposes, to gain power. It's all about power over people and countries.

: In short, many of the points of view on this bulletin board about 'muslims' are no better informed than the points of view expressed above about English football hooliganism. So next time you think about posting about 'those muslims', take a step back and think what it is you really mean. Are you referring to the hooligan, the football team or to the British.

: (No doubt there'll be some idiots who don't bother to read to the end and start pulling the arguments in the first football supporters section to pieces. Duhhhh. The falicy of the initial argument IS obviously part of the point being made!)

Follow Ups:

Re: Point is people who are unfarely grouped get agressive.. safehaven 26/September/2001 at 23:49 (2)
- Re: Sorry denc - no slight intended. Totally agree with your summary too(nm) safehaven 27/September/2001 at 00:29 (0)
- how kind of you to explain it for me nm denc 26/September/2001 at 23:54 (0)

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Comments:	: bad dogs bite but it dont mean all dogs are bad : geddit : Denc : : : : Over 90% of football hooliganism is caused by English supporters of football. (I have a list of over 60 football clubs in England alone where supporters of these teams have gone on the rampage destroying property and devastating lives). Anyone who supports football teams where there is hooliganism should immediately be identified, and questioned about other criminal activity. Outside a football stadium 800 'English people' could be seen chanting abusive language, with frequent fights breaking out between various factions. Often these 'English people' are armed with knives. In two recent armed robberies police found crutial evidence in the car, of Millwall Football Club Scarves. It is therefore clear that these fanatical British groups are supported by the proceeds of organised crime. : : The majority of British people do support a football club, so the British are supporters of pure hatred and violence. If you support the British, you support violence. Are you for or against violence ? : : Is this a fair view ? No obviously not. : : As a British person I would be incensed to think that someone could not understand the difference between a 'real' football supporter and those football supporters who support a team just for the violence. I would also be incensed that such a global term as British was being used to represent this minority of football supporters. : : You'd also point out that even though many football clubs have hooliganism, that the majority of people who support football clubs are peaceful people who want nothing to do with this violence. Plus just because the majority of hooligans are English doesn't mean that all English people should be treated as hooligans. : : Because we are completely familiar with what it means to be a football supporter, means that we can instantly see through the obvious falicy of the above representation and arguements. If we read this in a newspaper we'd laugh. Just in the same way we laugh at the Financial Analysts on CNN and their obvious biased points of view, and attempt to manipulate the market, or their favourite stocks. : : Now imagine that wherever you went you always had to wear your football scarf. Because of this scarf you would always be identified as 'one of those hooligans'. Then 20 people from your football club carryout an attrocity killing many, many people. Now wherever you go you are spat at. People point at you. Your kids are bullied at school. You walk in a bar and the place goes quiet; someone picks a fight. Every newspaper you read talks about those 'English' fanatics. Every TV program seems to talk about British people yet again causing violence. Then you see a chat show where they talk about the British and what can be done to eradicate this British problem. You could see how this would alienate 'British' people from those making these types of statements. How long before you might expect these peaceful British people to react with violence to the violence that they are receiving ? But of course this is what you'd expect from the violent British! (See how our attitudes and the generic use of tags will cause this circle to be complete ?) : : Yet this is what is happening throughout the country to ordinary honest muslim families because people are ignorant of what it means to be a muslim. Anybody who is truly religious inherently understands that the religious message is about peace, love and understanding. Religion is not about taking the little bits that supports your point of view, it's about the whole. The whole does not support the taking of another life. Period. : : People like Osama Bin Laden distort Islam for their own purposes, to gain power. It's all about power over people and countries. : : In short, many of the points of view on this bulletin board about 'muslims' are no better informed than the points of view expressed above about English football hooliganism. So next time you think about posting about 'those muslims', take a step back and think what it is you really mean. Are you referring to the hooligan, the football team or to the British. : : (No doubt there'll be some idiots who don't bother to read to the end and start pulling the arguments in the first football supporters section to pieces. Duhhhh. The falicy of the initial argument IS obviously part of the point being made!)